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[Fiona] Uill tha sinn uabhasach eòlach air a bhith a’ faicinn Joy Dunlop ann an diofar riochd air telebhisean, air àrd ùrlar agus air rèidio. Ach na bu thràithe air a‘ bhliadhna sa bha i ag obair air pròiseact ùr nuair a bha i a stiùireadh còisir air an robh “Alba” gu farpais Eurovision airson còisirean. Fàilte ort, Joy.

[Joy] Tapadh leibh.

[Fiona] Uill chaidh e uabhasach math dhuibh. Ciamar a bha e a’ faireachdainn a bhith a-muigh an siud leis a’ chòisir agad?

[Joy] Ò, chòrd e rinn cho mòr, fhios agad, ’s e cothrom a bh’ ann a bha cho sònraichte a bhith a’ riochdachadh na h-Alba air àrd-ùrlar cho cliùiteach ’s cho eadar-nàiseanta, agus a bhith a’ riochdachadh na h-Alba — chan ann a’ riochdachadh na Gàidhealtachd a bha sinn — agus bha siud uabhasach math dhuinn, agus chòrd e rinn. Bha a h-uile duine cho snog, bha a’ chòisir fhèin laghach agus, fhios agad, dh’fhairich e gur e rud sònraichte a bh’ ann air an oidhche fhèin.

[Fiona] Agus ciamar a thàinig e gu bith gun robh thu an sàs ann?

[Joy] Chaidh faighneachd dhomh am bithinn deònach còisir a chur ri chèile a dh’aona-gnothach gus pàirt a ghabhail anns an fharpais, agus b’ e rud mòr a bha sin leis gu bheil an t-uabhas seinneadairean againn ann an saoghal na Gàidhlig a bhiodh gu math freagarrach, ach bha agamsa ri còisir a thaghadh agus sin na rinn mi. Choimhead mi air na seinneadairean a bh’ againn, cò an fheadhainn a dh’obraicheadh gu math còmhla, agus chuir sinn rudeigin ri chèile a bha beagan diofraichte bhon àbhaist. Is sin na bha sinn ag iarraidh, fhios agad, a bhith ga thoirt air falbh bho Mhòdan. Tha sinn uile a’ seinn ann an còisirean co-dhiù, is bha sinn ag iarraidh rudeigin a bharrachd a chur ris.

[Fiona] Agus a bheil riaghailtean teann ann le Eurovision mar a th’ aca air feadhainn na farpaisean anns a‘ Mhòd?

[Joy] Chan eil e a cheart cho teann. Bha e a’ leigeil leinn rud sam bith a dhèanamh ged a bha iad ag ràdh rinn gum feumamaid rudeigin a dhèanamh a bha stèidhichte air òrain à Alba. Ach bha mise gu mòr ag iarraidh gum biodh òrain Gàidhlig againn aig cridhe na cùise agus, em... ’s toil leamsa seòrsa megamixes a chur ri chèile, agus sin na bha mi ag iarraidh, fhios agad!

[Fiona] Joy Megamix!

[Joy] Sin agad e! Fhios agad, mashups mar a bha, bha…, thug sin cothrom dhuinn, fhios agad, iomadach rud a shealltainn, agus bha fhios a’m gun robh mi ag iarraidh gum biodh “Alba” — an t-òran “Alba” — mar phàirt dheth, is dh’obraich a h-uile rud aig a’ cheann thall.

[Fiona] Is an robh e eagalach? Am pròiseas air fad, tha mi a’ creids’, ’s e uiread de dh’uallach a bh’ ann dhut — an robh e duilich?

[Joy] Leis an fhìrinn cha robh i eagalach, ach cha robh mi a’ smaoineachadh air a sin, fhios a’d. Bha fhios a’m gun robh obair romham agus gun robh rudeigin agam ri chur ri chèile, is mar sin bha mise gu mòr an sàs ann an daoine a bhrosnachadh cha mhòr, agus sin na bha air m’ aire-sa, fhios agad, gun robh iad fhèin a’ dol a bhith air an àrd-ùrlar, gun robh iad a’ dol a sheinn is gun robh agamsa ri daoine a stiùireadh agus daoine a dheisealachadh airson sin. Ach, fhios a’d, bha sinn a’ mothachadh gur e rud mòr sònraichte — cothrom air leth a bh’ ann — agus sin na bha air m’ aire.

[Fiona] ’S dòcha nach robh an t-eagal ort ach chunnaic mise am prògram a bha gur leantainn agus bha e a’ cur an t-eagal ormsa, is cha robh mise fiù ’s anns a’ chòisir. Chan eil fhios a’m an fheadhainn fod stiùir. Chan eil fhios a’m an obraichinn cruaidh gu leòr dhuibh.

[Joy] Chanainn gun robh an t-eagal orra. Gu tric.

[Fiona] Nise, tha thu eòlach air Nochd, tha thu air a bhith againn ron a seo is mar sin bidh fios agad dè a’ dol a thachairt an-dràsta.

[Joy] Tha.

[Fiona] Tha mi a’ dol a thòiseachadh le dà roghainn dhut an seo, is faighnichidh mi ceist. Iasg no tiops?

[Joy] Hmm... tiops, tha mi a’ smaoineachadh!

[Fiona] Glè mhath. An robh thu a-riamh ann an casino, is am bi thu a’ cur gealltainn air rudan, agus ma tha, cò air?

[Joy] Tha mi air a bhith ann an casino turas no dhà. Cha chreid mi gun robh mi riamh ann an casino ro dhà uair sa mhadainn! Cha bhith mi mar as tric a’ cur gealltainn, chan eil mi uabhasach fortanach anns an dòigh sin, agus chan eil mi buileach a’ tuigsinn nan riaghailtean. Tha deagh chuimhne a’m gun do dh’fheuch mi turas a bhith cuideachail don fheadhainn eile a bha a’ cluiche, agus aig a cheann thall chaidh iarraidh ormsa falbh. Cha b’ ann bhon a’ chasino fhèin leis gun robh iad fhèin a’ dèanamh fortan. Bha mi... Cha do bhuannaich sinn rud sam bith, ach’s e iad na cluicheadairean fhèin aig a‘ cheart àm.

[Fiona] Fhios a’d, thachair an dearbh rud riumsa. Bha mise ann an casino agus bha kitty a h-uile duine eile agam nam phòcaid, dh’fhalbh mi chun a’ bhòrd agus cha robh fios agam dè bha mi a’ dèanamh, agus thàinig cuideigin a dh’iarraidh an kitty, is cha robh sgeul air a’ khitty.

[Joy] Mm-hmm!

[Fiona] Ach cha deach mi air ais ann.

[Joy] Tha thusa fada nas ciallaiche na mise ma tha.

[Fiona] Uill, a bheil thu ciallach? A bheil thu ciallach no a bheil thu...

[Joy] Ahhh, tha aig amannan. Aig ceithir uair anns a’ mhadainn ann an casino, hmm, chì sinn.

[Fiona] Chan eil duine sam bith. Glè mhath, okay. Dè mu dheidhinn aosta no ùr?

[Joy] Dè mu dheidhinn ùr?

[Fiona] Dè as urrainn dhan Mhòd ionnsachadh bho Fharpais Eurovision?

[Joy] Ò, ’s e ceist a tha sin. Rud a bha uabhasach math dhuinne, ’s e gun d’ fhuair e, gun tug e cothrom dhuinne a bhith ag obair le òrain ann an dòigh caran diofraichte. Bha e uabhasach math a bhith gluasad, agus chan eil fhios a’m an còrdadh sin ri còisirean eile ach, fhios a’d, ’s e obair mhòr a th’ ann a bhith a’ toirt air daoine sin a dhèanamh. Ach tha àite ann airson na dhà, fhios a’d. ’S e Mòd geek a th’ annamsa, ’s fior thoil leam am Mòd. Ach bhiodh e math nam b’ urrainn dhuinn coimhead air, uill, “dè ghabhas dèanamh a-nise?”.

[Fiona] ’S ciamar a dhèilig daoine leis a sin, leis an atharrachadh mòr a tha sin dha daoine gum feumadh iad dannsa? An robh iad math air?

[Joy] Ahh... bha cuid dhiubh na b’ fheàrr na cuid eile a bha gu math doirbh aig an toiseach. Agus daoine an-fhoiseil cuideachd leis nach robh iad eòlach air a chèile, agus bha agamsa ri bhith ann teis-meadhan a h-uile rud is ag ràdh “uill ma tha mise a’ feuchainn air, faodaidh sibhse feuchainn air” agus chan e gun robh mi math air, mar a chunnaic tòrr agaibh anns an documentary. Ach, fhios agad, feumaidh tu a bhith a’ stiùireadh dhaoine, agus bha iad uile gu math dìcheallach. Tha fhios a’m gun robh iad ag obair, fiù ’s a thaobh coiseachd agus seinn aig an aon àm.

[Fiona] ’S e dannsair a bh’ annad-sa...

[Joy] ’S e.

[Fiona] ...ron a seo ge-tà. Dè seòrsa dannsa a bhiodh tu a’ dèanamh?

[Joy] Uill, nuair a bha mi òg, ’s e ballet a dhèanainn, ach bha mi fada, fada ro àrd airson sin!

[Fiona] Chan eil thu àrd, a bheil?!

[Joy] Rud beag àrd. Ach bidh mi a’ dèanamh dannsa ceum fhathast, agus dhòmhsa dheth tha e uabhasach nàdarra a bhith a’ seinn agus a’ gluasad aig an aon àm, agus tha e doirbh dhòmhsa seasamh gu ceart gun a bhith a’ gluasad. ’S mar sin nuair a bha sinn ag obair air, fhios agad, a bhith a’ coiseachd no a’ gluasad do làmhan bha mi mothachail gun robh e caran nàdarra dhòmhsa, ach a bhith a’ toirt air cuid eile a bhith a’ gluasad, a bhith a’ coiseachd agus a’ seinn, bha e gu math doirbh dhaibh.

[Fiona] Tha mi a’ creid’ gum biodh. Tha sinn a’ gluasad a-nis gu PM no MP3?

[Joy] Dè mu dheidhinn PM?

[Fiona] Nan robh thusa nad phrìomhaire, cò airson a bhiodh tu seasamh? Chan ann airson am pàrtaidh ach airson dè na rudan a tha cudromach dhut?

[Joy] Hmm. Ceist inntinneach a tha sin. Uill, tha mi cinnteach a’ chiad rud a dhèanainn ’s e gum biodh Gàidhlig ga teagasg anns na sgoiltean uile. Tha mi a’ smaoineachadh gun coimheadainn air na rudan a thaobh ana-ceartais. Tha mise gu math, fhios agad, tha mi a’ coimhead air daoine agus chan eil e gu diofar leamsa cò iad. So bhiodh e math coimhead air dè ghabhadh dèanamh airson…dìreach gum biodh na h-aon cothroman aig a h-uile duine agus nach biodh e gu diofar, fhios agad, na... mas e gun deach do thogail anns na h-eileanan no anns a’ bhaile, no nan robh thu gu math beairt no mura robh. Chan eil fhios a’m ciamar a dhèanainn sin, ach ’s e, fhios a’d, ’s e cothroman a bhith aig clann agus cothroman a bhith aig daoine air a h-uile rud air a bheil iad feumach.

[Fiona] ’S dè mu dheidhinn na do bheatha làitheil? Na rudan a bhios a’ cur [a’ chais ort. A bheil rudan ann mu dheidhinn [dhaoine] nach toigh leat, ’eil fhios a’d, pet peeves?

[Joy] Em. Cha toigh leamsa daoine a tha suarach. Cha toigh leam daoine a tha cruaidh air daoine eile, fhios agad. Mar a tha mise ga fhaicinn tha sinn uile co-ionnan is cha toigh leam daoine a tha a’ dèiligeadh ri daoine eile anns an dòigh sin, fhios agad. Chan urrainn dhòmhsa tuigsinn carson nach biodh tu snog le cuideigin eile, agus tha e gam fhàgail gu math fiadhaich ma chì mi burraidheachd no ma chì mi daoine eile a tha a’ cur sìos air, fhios agad, caraidean no daoine eile air nach eil iad eòlach. ’S dòcha gu bheil iad farmadach, no ’s dòcha nach eil iad fiù ’s eòlach orra. So tha sin gam fhàgail gu math fiadhaich.

[Fiona] Tha mi a’ smaoineachadh gun dèanadh tu prìomhaire uabhasach math!

[Joy] Ò, uill tha mise a’ smaoineachadh gun dèanadh, chan eil fhios a’m an aontaich daoine eile leam!

[Fiona] Tha mi uabhasach toilichte gun tàinig thu a-steach a chèilidh oirnn...

[Joy] Tapadh leibh.

[Fiona] ...is tu cho trang. Mìle taing, Joy.

Chaidh am prògram seo, Nochd, a chraoladh an toiseach ann an 2019. Taing do Bees Nees

[Fiona] Well we’re all very familiar with seeing Joy Dunlop in different roles on television, on stage and on radio. But earlier this year she was working on a new project when she led a choir called “Alba” to the Eurovision competition for choirs. Welcome, Joy.

[Joy] Thank you.

[Fiona] Well it went really well for you. How did it feel to be out there with your choir?

[Joy] Oh, we enjoyed it so much, you know, it was such a special opportunity to be representing Scotland on such a renowned and international stage, and to be representing Scotland — it wasn’t the Highlands we were representing — and that that was really good for us, and we enjoyed it. Everyone was so nice, the choir themselves were lovely and, you know, it felt like a special thing on the night itself.

[Fiona] And how did it come to be that you were involved in it?

[Joy] I was asked if I’d be willing to put a choir together especially to take part in the competition, and that was a big thing with the amount of singers we have in the Gaelic world who’d be more than worthy, but it was up to me to pick a choir and that’s what I did. I looked at the singers we had, who were the ones who’d work well together, and we put something together that was a little bit out of the ordinary. That’s what we wanted, you know, to take it away from Mods. We all sing in choirs anyway, and we wanted to add something more to that.

[Fiona] And are there strict rules with Eurovision like they have in some of the competitions in the Mod?

[Joy] It’s not quite as strict. It allowed us to do anything, although they told us that we had to do something based on songs from Scotland. But I really wanted our Gaelic songs to be at the heart of it and, em… I like to put sorts of megamixes together, and that’s what I wanted, you know!

[Fiona] Joy Megamix

[Joy] That’s it! You know, mashups that were… that gave us an opportunity, you know, to show lots of things, and I knew that I wanted “Alba” — the song “Alba” — to be a part of it, and everything worked out in the end.

[Fiona] An Was it scary? The whole process, I imagine, was quite a responsibility for you — was it difficult?

[Joy] To tell the truth it wasn’t scary, but I wasn’t thinking about that, you know. I knew I had a task in front of me and that I had to get something together, and so I was quite involved in encouraging people almost, and that’s what had my attention, you know, that they themselves were going to be on the stage, that they were going to sing and I had to conduct people and prepare them for that. And, you know, we recognised that it was a big, special thing — a special opportunity — and that’s what was on my mind.

[Fiona] Maybe you weren’t scared, but I saw the programme that was following you and it scared me and I wasn’t even in the choir. I don’t know about the people under your direction. I don’t know if I’d work hard enough for you.

[Joy] I’d say they were scared. Often.

[Fiona] Now, you’re familiar with Nochd, we’ve had you before, so you’ll know what’s going to happen now.

[Joy] Yes.

[Fiona]I’m going to begin with two choices for you here, and I’ll ask you a question. Fish or chips?

[Joy] Hmmm… chips, I think.

[Fiona] Very good. Have you ever been in a casino, do you ever bet on things, and if so, on what?

[Joy] I’ve been in a casino once or twice. I don’t think I’ve been in a Casino before two o’clock in the morning! I don’t often place bets, I’m not terribly fortunate like that and I don’t completely understand the rules. I remember well one time well I tried to be helpful to the others who were playing, and in the end, I was asked to leave. Not from the casino itself since they were making a fortune. I was… We didn’t win anything they were the players at the same time.

[Fiona] You know, the very same thing happened to me. I was in a casino and I had everyone’s kitty in my pocket, I left for the table with no idea what I was doing, and someone came asking for the kitty, and there was no trace of the kitty.

[Joy] Mm hmm!

[Fiona] But I never went back.

[Joy] You’re much more sensible than me.

[Fiona] Well, are you sensible? Are you sensible or are you…

[Joy] Ahhh, yes at times. At four o’clock in the morning in a casino, hmm, we’ll see…

[Fiona] Nobody is. Very good, ok. What about old or new?

[Joy] What about new?

[Fiona] What can the Mod learn from the Eurovision Contest?

[Joy] Oh, that’s a question. A really good thing for us, it’s that it got, that it gave us an opportunity to work with songs in a slightly different way. It was really good to be moving, and I don’t know if other choirs would enjoy that, you know, it’s a lot of work to get people to do that. But there’s a place for the two, you know. I’m a Mod geek, you know, I really like the Mod. But it’d be really good if we could look at, well, “what can be done now?”.

[Fiona] And how did people deal with that, with the big change that is for folk, that they’d have to dance? Were they good at it?

[Joy] Ahhh… some of them were better than others who were a bit difficult at the start. People were uneasy too because they didn’t know each other, and I had to be in the middle of everything saying “well if I’m trying it, you can try it too”, and not that I was good at it, as many of you saw in the documentary. But, you know, you have to direct people, and they were all very willing. I know they were working, even in terms of walking and singing at the same time.

[Fiona] You were a dancer…

[Joy] Yes.

[Fiona] …previously though. What sort of dancing did you do?

[Joy] Well, when I was young, I did ballet, but I was far too tall for that!

[Fiona] You’re not tall, are you?!

[Joy] A wee bit tall. But I still do step dancing, and for me it’s really natural to sing and dance at the same time, and it’s difficult for me to stand properly without moving. So when we were working on, you know, walking or moving your hands I was aware it was somewhat natural for me, but to get others moving, walking and singing, it was very difficult for them.

[Fiona] I’m sure it would be. We’re moving now to PM or MP3?

[Joy] Dè mu dheidhinn PM?

[Fiona] If you were Prime Minister, what would you stand for? Not which party but what are the things that are important for you?

[Joy] Hmm, that’s an interesting question. Well, I’m sure the first thing I’d do is have Gaelic taught in all schools. I think I would look at things in terms of injustice. I’m quite, you know, I look at people and it makes no difference who they are. So it would be good to look at what could be done for…just so that everyone would have the same opportunities and it wouldn’t make a difference, you know, the… if you were raised on the islands or in the town, or if you were wealthy or not. I don’t know how I’d do that, but it’s, you know, it’s opportunities for children and opportunities for people to have everything they need.

[Fiona] And what about in your everyday life? The things that rub you up the wrong way. Are there things about people that you don’t like, you know, pet peeves?

[Joy] Em. I don’t like people who are churlish. I don’t like people who are hard on other people, you know. As I see it we are all equal and I don’t like people who deal with other people in that way, you know. I can’t understand why you wouldn’t be nice with someone else, and it makes me pretty furious if I see bullying or if I see someone else talking badly of, you know, friends or other people they don’t know. Maybe they’re jealous, or maybe they don’t even know them. So that makes me quite mad.

[Fiona] I think that you’d make a really good Prime Minister!

[Joy] Well I think so, I don’t know if other people would agree with me!

[Fiona] I’m so pleased you came in to visit us…

[Joy] Thank you.

[Fiona] …with you being so busy. Many thanks, Joy.

This programme, Nochd, was first broadcast in 2019. Thanks to Bees Nees.